Curse

Sir Tificate · Dec 26, 2007, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Separate who you end up fighting in HA based on rank.
Why? So new people can get into higher levels of PvP reasonably.

As it stands, there are reasons that new people don't get put into higher rank groups, because they generally don't know what they are doing quite as well.
However, they can only get higher rank by winning in battle, which 90% of the time can only be done by getting into a higher rank group or running one of the random x-WAY builds that crop up every now and then. Practicing "normal" builds to get rank also doesn't work very well, as the only real place to practice is in HA itself, where they have a very high chance of being steamrolled before they know what is going on, being sent back to the outpost with no Faction, Fame, or actual experience in the gameplay mode. After doing the same thing several times, many people give up and leave. Sure, dedicated people and people with good guilds can get through it, but for the average person, this paradox sucks.

Separate the HA battle sets by rank, so that new people practice against new people, so that rank discrimination doesn't seriously hinder ability to play, and so that people can get experience in higher level PvP.

The separation could work like this:

Rank 0-2
Rank 3-5
Rank 6-8
Rank 9-11
Rank 12+

How exactly groups would figure out their rank would probably be by average rank of all the players on the team. However, the group can choose to enter as a rank of any amount higher than their average if they so choose. Thus, new PvP-ers can join their rank 3-5 friends in HA without problems, or players who already GvG alot can start at a higher rank as opposed to fighting unchallenging people in lower ranks.

There may be some tweaking needed for the system, but I think it would help get people to make the transition from RA/AB/TA to HA/GvG better, which is something the game needs, in my opinion.

Lawliet Kira · Dec 26, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

/signed

I dont think its fair that r1's go aginst r13's

high ranked ppl should get a fair match with ppl wwith the same rank

Div · Dec 26, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Which means...there's going to be 20 minute waits for matches! Even without a tiered system, there is plenty of no opposing party. No need to make the wait worse. Plus, all it does is make it so people who get to r3 got it by beating randomways. That just makes player skill even worse.

Lady Raenef · Dec 26, 2007, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Which means...there's going to be 20 minute waits for matches! Even without a tiered system, there is plenty of no opposing party. No need to make the wait worse. Plus, all it does is make it so people who get to r3 got it by beating randomways. That just makes player skill even worse.

I'd rather that then fight Kamakazi Tactics repeatedly.

noneedforclevernames · Dec 26, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

/notsigned
Although this would benefit me I actually think about the other people who were rank 3 beating the rank 9's to now be rank 10.

Diddy bow · Dec 26, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

I think the match waiting times would make this impossible, and what if you acctually wanted to group with a lower/higher ranked dude, is that even possible. If it is.

"LF low rank leader for faction/chest farm"

And if its not then your just runing HA for the sake of getting rid of rank discrim, people should just face the fact its here and here to stay...

RotteN · Dec 26, 2007, 11:34 PM // 23:34

ok, some obvious flaws :

1) waiting times : honestly, who's going to wait 30 minutes or so for a HA match ?
2) Hall of Heroes : who's going to fight in HoH ? one hall for every seperate tier ? that's just stupid.

if you're having trouble getting into groups, join a HA guild, problem solved ... if you have trouble winning, then try harder and improve ... it might sound odd, but losing a lot isn't exactly bad, as long as you know what made you lose and pay attention to it afterwards.

You can't see me · Dec 26, 2007, 11:35 PM // 23:35

/signed.

Matching skill level to skill level would be ftw.

Malice Black · Dec 26, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Won't work, won't happen.

Sir Tificate · Dec 26, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Hmm... Complaint addressing time!

1. Wait times are going to be hell.
This one is a tough one, but ready your thinking caps a moment:

a. Promote HoH. Double faction? Talk about it more? Unique item skins from HoH chest? This is opening up a can of worms, but is an okay last resort.

b. Pair with different ranks when forced to do so. If the only enemy is one of a different rank, you fight them anyway. Otherwise, it works towards closest to your rank of group. It still isn't a perfect system for skill level matching, but it still works better than what we have now. A reasonable stopgap until someone comes up with a better idea.

c. Hope this change convinces a lot of new people to try HoH. No, it idn't a solution, but when all else fails...

2. Seeking different rank groups.
I mentioned earlier that the group's rank would be the average of all the individual member's ranks. So, it is possible to try and take lower rankers to farm, but you have to be able to do the farming with fewer and fewer people of higher rank that know what to do. Plus, as the higher ranks farm more and more, they need more people of low rank to get into lower rank sets of groups.

3. Who's in HoH?
Another issue to worry about. Thinking caps again.

a. Anyone. You get to HoH, you're not too shabby, so you the rank sets end, and you fight any rank group. HA as a whole is made better by the change, but HoH doesn't lose its luster.

b. Different HoHs for each rank set. Why not? Opens up its own problems, though.

c. Group choice. You get to HoH, your group votes to decide if it wants to enter the Hall of Heroes (any rank enters) or some replacement area, a Hall of Relative Heroes we'll say, one without as good of rewards. Ghostly Hero is the tie-breaker, and he wants to go to Hall of Heroes. This exacerbates the whole wait time problem, though, especially if you end up with an AFKer, which could be possible at lower rank sets.

4. Won't work, won't happen.
Can't really say much as you didn't say what exactly the problem was.

Feel free to add your own solutions and own problems to this idea.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Dec 27, 2007, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Meh nice idea and I kinda like it but it wont work besides waiting times, many times rank doesn't always = skill.

I have fought r5 groups that all they did was IWAY and kicked their asses

Tyla · Dec 27, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

how would this change that the legendary suckage upage build (Zergway) wont get owned all the time?

look at HA, all you see these days is Zergway...which is simple to beat.

Free fame ftw if your monks dont suck

Zahr Dalsk · Dec 27, 2007, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Remove rank.

fir · Dec 27, 2007, 08:37 AM // 08:37

/not sure
sounds like a good idea but the waiting time would be long then :S

RotteN · Dec 27, 2007, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Remove rank.

sure, if you remove all PvE titles aswell then, and why not do away with obsidian armor aswell then ?

seriously, people worked hard to earn high ranks, just as much as people work hard to get high KoaBD ranks. Taking that away would be retarded.

every time HA discussions come up, there's always someone saying "remove rank". It won't happen, it's not even remotely an option imo (and no, i don't even have a high rank, i barely play tombs)

Lykan · Dec 27, 2007, 11:33 AM // 11:33

/notsigned

r1 wammos wont learn anything fighting other wammos with heal breeze

Phoenix Tears · Dec 27, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

signed ..

get rid of the rank discrimination and give the game an easy way so that HA newbies can get easily into the materia and can find easier groups and fight versus other groups of their same "experience level" ....

MithranArkanere · Dec 27, 2007, 12:42 PM // 12:42

It can't be done like the HoH is like now: One battle at a time.

If they added at leat 3 halls, they could make them separate. In each one, people with ranks nearest to the ones that have one enter, or somwthing like...

One for rank 1..5, another forn ranks 6..10 and a last for ranks 11..15.

But currently is impossible.

Holy · Dec 27, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

/not signed

while you're at it, jsut make HA a RA type draw. Get picked by rank and such.

This will (imo) never happen, simply because you will not learn anything fighting other inexperienced r1 like you.

All you will do is gain fame beating them, and when you get to r3, you enter a battle and get owned by other r3s.

Why? because you think when ppl say their monk is running "HB" they mean Healing Breeze....

anonymous · Dec 27, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

/notsigned

You don't get better by playing crap players, you get better by playing good players and realizing what you did wrong. When I play any shooter and find a server with really good players, I don't leave, I keep coming back until I'm good enough to beat them. Everyone had to start at a low rank, we used our friends list to set up groups instead of rank, which is generally better quality. You can do the same. The complaint of "I suck so ruin the game for all the people that don't suck" doesn't work. Just get better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

It can't be done like the HoH is like now: One battle at a time.

If they added at leat 3 halls, they could make them separate. In each one, people with ranks nearest to the ones that have one enter, or somwthing like...

One for rank 1..5, another forn ranks 6..10 and a last for ranks 11..15.

But currently is impossible.

If it does get seperated HoH should not be seperated. It is the final level of the tournament where the best teams are supposed to fight. If you aren't the best team why should you be able to win HoH?

I find it funny that all the people that complain about rank discrimination what to remove the discrimination from the players and integrate it into the game.